Curse

Lazarous · May 13, 2005, 03:16 AM // 03:16

Not disagreeing with you

.

Though if a.net coded it how would the tournament progress? Weeklong, then resets? Every day?

Laz

Studio Ghibli · May 13, 2005, 03:19 AM // 03:19

I'm.. not really sure.

I think this should be looked at first:

At the end of the round, do teams redraw their decks, or do they stick with the ones they have?

Yuji Storm · May 13, 2005, 03:21 AM // 03:21

Would attributes be null and void? or would you, upon arival of the random skills be allowed to spend a set ammount of attribute points to make your best skill better?

Lazarous · May 13, 2005, 03:23 AM // 03:23

That answer would depend on the length of rounds.

If it was a weeklong tournament with 1 round/day i'd say redraw after every round.

If it was daylong or less with rounds happening quickly i'd say no, but possibly redraw after each elimination.

Laz

Studio Ghibli · May 13, 2005, 04:09 AM // 04:09

Everyone would be set at the same level with the same amount of spendable attribute points.

Vangor · May 13, 2005, 08:12 AM // 08:12

I'd say do a complete randomization of classes and skills, classes primary and secondary are of course completely random, and it then chooses 4 random attributes to upgrade, which effects your focuses, weapons, and so on so that people don't end up with an axe when they need a hammer. From the 4 random attributes chosen, 1-3 sklls are chosen from each (obviously if an attribute has 1, another has 3 to balance) with non-links thrown in there to balance as well. Then all attributes are assigned a value of 9/9/8/8, players can tweak in the first 30 seconds to up an attribute at the expense of another just as our current system goes.

Would be the only logical way to do this, magic was different because essentially even crap cards could be used since it was highly implausible you didn't have any lands for it, but, in GW with attributes, skills, and equipment, you could be given hammer mastery 12 with dismember, axe rake, and axe twist and be wielding a dragon sword, but I'm sure everyone realizes that, the above is just a way to define some rules.

As well, it would be a complete randomization of team size (4-8), objective, and map, for that little added twist.

Studio Ghibli · May 13, 2005, 08:49 AM // 08:49

Perhaps.

I'd still prefer the code randomly choose a number of skills/spells from randomly drawn classes and allow the player to decide his attributes.

Drylnn · May 13, 2005, 11:55 AM // 11:55

This idea is an excellent one, and I'd be all over that if they had it. It would alleviate some of my fears about competitiveness in PVP in say, two months, mostly because it would offer a type of pvp where I wouldn't have to worry at all about grinding skills and runes (I know people debate the merits of this... I'm not trying to pick a fight... I just think there is a slight grind advantage, but not a huge one).

k1rage · May 13, 2005, 12:07 PM // 12:07

Best Idea Ever!

Madjik · May 13, 2005, 12:36 PM // 12:36

This is a wonderful idea! A match of this type would be a LOAD of fun just to WATCH much less play in. I'd like to see this.

MasterDinadan · May 13, 2005, 02:41 PM // 14:41

How about this... a pool of abilities is spawned for each team. It creates a certain number of abilities for each profession and then members of the team take turns picking abilities out of the pool (picking only from one of their professions). This way, people have a choice of abilities but taking the best abilities also means depriving the others in the group from the ability when they might need it more. This encourages you to think about how you want the abilities assigned among group members. Then everyone is given some armor of a specific quality (the type of armor can be random) and then a bunch of weapons are spawned and everyone on the team picks a weapon out of the pool.
I think this would be cool, plus it would encourage a team to have varying professions. If everyone was a ranger then all the ranger abilities would be picked up quickly and they would be forced to fill their bar with secondary profession abilities which they may not want to.

Epinephrine · May 13, 2005, 02:46 PM // 14:46

Ok, I made a suggestion like this elsewhere: I always liked the matched boosters setup for Magic, or the equivalent of duplicates bridge. Each player is given a set of cards, but they are the same cards. This is normally achieved in Magic by having a host with a very large collection of cards; land is available in piles for the taking, 3-4 booster packs are opened by the host and then matching cards are drawn from his collection to make a pile identical to the random cards from the boosters. This is done for each pair playing (A vs. B, C vs. D, E vs. F for example), so that within each pair they have the SAME starting material (A=B, C=D etc....) Then, after the game, each player slides down one seat on the bench, and plays with a new set of cards, but against a new opponent who is again using the same set of cards. (Thus, A now faces F using the cards that C and D used last; C faces B using the cards that E and F used last and E faces D asing the cards that A and B used last.) They rotate through opponents using the decks, and then totals are tallied.

The same idea could be used here, just with teams. For 4 on 4, 4 class combos are presented to each team, they select from them in 30 seconds or so after discussing it briefly - they then are presented with 60 or so skills chosen randomly from the attribute lines from whicht they bmake their build - but the opposing team is given the same list. They of course will end up with different builds, but they has the same skill sets. Team discussion is allowed while selecting skills and armour, when it ends you face your evenly matched opponents

Bamelin · May 13, 2005, 02:59 PM // 14:59

if your a mtg fan you might like this little gem:

www.starchamber.net

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taion · May 13, 2005, 08:48 PM // 20:48

Randomised skills would probably be optimal: hand each player something like 24–30 skills chosen entirely at random (enough to assure that at least the player will be able to fill its skillbar for at least some class combo), and let the player choose its class, attributes, and PvP-style equipment (I guess item upgrades would either have to be disabled, standardised, or appropriately randomised). The point of Sealed and Draft in M:tG is that it's a limited format – half the challenge is to make the best build possible from limited resources, and it's expected that the builds you end up with are mediocre at best compared to anything constructed, but it's a lot of fun to try to conjure up at least some semblence of synergy from a randomised card pool. Giving someone skills completely at random and only allowing selection of class combo and attribute points isn't much of a test of the ability to construct a good build, whereas using a randomised skill pool does allow for this.

And it has been suggested before on the thread, though not directly, but how about something analogous to Draft rather than Sealed? There's another layer of skill in signalling your card/skill picks in Draft-based formats so you're at least marginally cooperating with the people next to you so none of you get totally screwed over by one another, and the results are typically less random – it's still possible for players to get lucky, and the resulting decks are never quite as good as constructed decks, but they do tend to be less consistent and more solid.

Studio Ghibli · May 13, 2005, 09:23 PM // 21:23

Err.

My implementation would've used randomized class, skills, and items.

I did make -one- suggestion that the randomization might, say, select -three- at random, and allow the player to take those three and set his primary/secondary that way, and then have randomized skills from there.

Who knows, though. :O

As long as it's random. XO

Epinephrine · May 14, 2005, 12:49 PM // 12:49

Well, random is good, but random MATCHED is better. I don't want to lose becasue he "randomly" got a great combo, while I got screwed. Matched random skill sets leaves it up to who can build and play better. Draft leaves it up to who can pick best and play best together. Simply having random and independent for each player could result in very lopsided competitions.

ocoini · May 14, 2005, 01:06 PM // 13:06

Random is fun

[email protected] · May 14, 2005, 02:43 PM // 14:43

There are too many "bad draws" possible if the total number of primary/secondary class types for each team aren't the same. (This is the idea posted as a reply to the original thread.)

Random skills wouldn't work, nor would random attribute points. The players must choose where to add attribute points to customize a good fit to the team. Then they must be allowed to choose skills from the same skills available to the other team.

Notice this gives a balanced fair fight. I wouldn't want to be "dealt" a skill weaker than the other teams, nor stronger. I'd rather lose to a person because they wisely chose the proper counter to our teams strategy, not because of random weaker deals. Plus imagine the number of people who would simply quit because their skills weren't what they wanted.

One possible outcome:

Team 1:
R/Mo
R/E
Mo/W
Mo/E
Me/W
Me/Ne
W/Ne
E/R

Team 2:
R/W
R/W
Mo/E
Mo/Ne
Me/Mo
Me/R
W/E
E/Ne
-----
Totals Each Team Primaries: 2 R, 2 Me, 2 Mo, 1 W, 1 E
Totals Each Team Secondary: 1 Mo, 2 W, 2 Ne, 2 E, 1 R

Makkert · May 14, 2005, 02:57 PM // 14:57

I second this suggestion

Studio Ghibli · May 14, 2005, 03:13 PM // 15:13

Attributes would NOT be randomized.

Skills would not be RANDOMLY assigned. Rather, players will be randomly given a SKILL POOL from which to draw their skills from.

The idea is to have a sealed deck tournament. What you're suggesting is totally opposite of sealed deck.

- edit -

If this isn't to your liking, maybe Sealed Deck isn't for you--because that's what Sealed Deck is all about. Not trying to be an ass. But it's part of the fun. The challenge of constructing a deck/character from randomly drawn skills and seeing how it works against your opponent.